THERE is no doubt that many people are susceptible to the repetition of a single message. No matter how stupid the message, if enough people say it often enough, a large percentage of those who hear it will begin to believe it. That’s the basis of advertising and also propaganda: it’s how you make ideas fashionable, even scientific ideas. But just because an idea is fashionable doesn’t make it right and just because an idea is right, well it doesn’t mean it represents the truth.
Fashion is in fact the lowest form of ideology and I have little regard for fashionable ideas – even fashionable scientific ideas. I also have little regard for what many claim to be good and wholesome ideas. My interest is in the facts, the evidence – the truth particularly as it pertains to the natural world.
There is intrinsic good in having a deep understanding, based on truths, of aspects of the natural world. For example, it is through understanding electricity – what it is and how it can be generated – that it many of our basic physical needs are now met at the flick of a switch: the lights come on, the house warms up, the kettle boils water. But not everyone studies science to discover useful things, for some it is the chase after facts and the thrill that comes with their discovery, for others an interest in an aspect of the puzzle that is the natural world in the hope of finding order in the universe.
But to be successful at science there is a need for a particular type of discipline – a discipline that is not necessary in many other intellectual pursuits. There is a need to be honest to reality and to always test theory against reality. In this respect science is different from the modern arts.
But science has not always been so different from art. For example, Leonardo da Vinci studied anatomy to become a better artist. That was during a period in Europe when the artist’s goal was assumed to be the representation of reality – of nature. But then a time came when European artists renounced representation as their goal. Art now is about emotion, culture and fashion – few modern day artists attempt to depict the world as it really is. This may or may not be a good thing for art but it clearly makes art something very different from science.
Science is meant to be about reality – it is meant to be about discovery and understanding and truth. Science is not meant to be about emotion or culture or even fashion. But how can you tell whether a conversation about a scientific issue is based on truth or fashion?
Until recently Larvatus Prodeo (LP), one of the first and most popular intellectual and political weblogs in Australia, regularly discussed issues concerning climate change. But I was banned from these discussions. I didn’t regularly visit the weblog, but I do subscribe to the daily e-news from On Line Opinion that used to advertise some of the topics discussed at LP. When I noticed something interesting on climate change I would sometimes click across and sometimes try and place a comment in the often very long comment threads. But my comments never appeared. When LP closed down in April 2012, I made comment at another popular weblog, Skepticlawyer, in a thread about the contribution of LP and weblogs more generally to political and intellectual debate, I comment that I was banned from posting at LP.[1]
Interestingly one of the moderators from LP, Anna Winter, quickly posted that my comments: “got banned from LP because they weren’t adding to the conversation we wanted to have.”
Anna Winters has degrees in philosophy and graphic design and has a particular interest in feminism, politics, ethics, pop culture, fashion magazine and chocolate mudcake. Clearly Ms Winters felt comfortable, and indeed entitled, to block a scientist, myself, from contributing to apparently open and public discussion about an issue of science on the basis of what? Emotion?
In the discussion that ensued at Scepticlawyer it became apparent that not only had I been banned from LP, but that any comment that referenced me, or my weblog, in any way, were also automatically filtered out – censored. Yet most Australian intellectuals assumed that LP was a place of robust debate where all were welcome and that discussions on topics such as climate change would not have automatically excluded a “noted Australian climate change sceptic” – to quote from an article in popular press.[2]
I introduce this anecdote because it shows that even in the most democratic of countries, Australia, on the most democratic of mediums, public and popular weblogs, conversations about science may be heavily moderated such that fashion is favoured over facts – or at least harmony over Socratic discussion.
So how can the average person find out the truth about issues of science, or at least both sides of issues of science that are in dispute?
If you ask most people, even scientists, how they might know something about the natural world, for example what causes coral bleaching at the Great Barrier Reef or ocean acidification, they will tend to reply with a piece of information, often a fact, that they will claim to have on good authority. For example, they may even quote an expert or a journal article, as though this proves that their fact is the truth.
Then there are those people who will tell a story about the topic often based on an anecdotal reflecting their own past experience.
There will only ever be a small percentage that can explain a phenomenon like ocean acidification from first principles and these experts will often speak in jargon that is unintelligible –unintelligible unless a great deal of self discipline is imposed.
So while there may be an intrinsic good in better understanding aspects of the natural world, or at least getting closer to the truth, its not always easy. And that is assuming that there is no reason for an expert, an institution, a government, or even a weblog, to want to obscure or hide the truth.
*********
1. See ‘The debate platforms of the future: twitter and facebook?’, posted on April 10, 2012 at http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2012/04/10/the-debate-platforms-of-the-future-twitter-and-facebook/
2. See ‘Counterpoint puts boot into Mediawatch’, Nick Leys, March 10, 2012 at http://www.theaustralian.com.au/media/counterpoint-puts-boot-into-mediawatch/story-e6frg996-1226310909357
[...] 1. How Scientific Ideas Become Fashionable (Part 1) https://climatelab.com.au/2012/07/how-scientific-ideas-become-fashionable-part-1/ [...]
Larry, I named my pet turkey (well one of them) after you. I needed something that would contrast from "Beeper", which is the name of my other turkey. "Larry and Beeper" fit the bill.
See, you have to give birds every chance to understand that you're talking to them.
Wait a minute. Dr. Smith is dead?
Well that's great, that's just f$@*in' great, man. Now what the f$@* are we supposed to do? We're in some real pretty s&%# now man...
That's it man, game over man, game over!
"a Mister Adam Smith esq – just totally shot up Nova’s latest anti-ACORN thread. An object lesson in logic. It’s a classic illustration of why Coher’s exhortations above are disingenuous (with no disrespect to Cohers of course – I’m sure he meant what he said from his POV and world view).."
For a while I thought Dr Smith was you:
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.newprophecy.net/Johnathan_Harris.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.newprophecy.net/more5.htm&h=362&w=284&sz=11&tbnid=aAUletyWEoKCaM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=71&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ddr%2Bsmith%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=dr+smith&usg=__cQBejf6CTYLZZhQaf_fRvEzvxRY=&docid=h_3sQ4sHh99mZM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=w64HULGECaaUiQfZuv3pAw&sqi=2&ved=0CHAQ9QEwBQ&dur=333
Unfortunately Dr Smith does not even approach your levels luke; but he is insistent and given to profanity, so maybe he is a distant relation.
A breakthrough - Debbie is a computer generating a limited range of responses but failing the Turing test.
Sorry Bazza,
Considering you have managed to include yourself (using the ubiquitous we) as a blusterer and a filibuster that frequents this place....
I can't help but ask you....
What would be truth?
Where would be the right place?
And what is your definition of a 'bottom feeder'?
And also....
Feeding on the bottom of what?
I also duly note that there is STILL no 'substantial scientific evidence' for these latest ZOOPERIOR, rhetorical, Bazza style evaluations that have now progressed to mixing up their metaphors.
I'm sorry if I appear to be treating you unfairly, but seriously, you continually pass judgement on the motivations of others and often claim that no one cares.
You then juxtapose (ie LINK) these judgemental and totally unsubstantiated comments with claims that your opinions are based on irrefutable science.
Deb, to paraphrase the King, "if you are looking for truth, you've come to the wrong place." Refusal to engage by the blusterers and filibusters that frequent this place may well be the reason we all end up bottom feeders.
Luke,
' Do my eyes deceive me – Debbie asks for cites?' 🙂
From your perspective, I can see that was actually funny!
Well done.
However....
considering Bazza is always adamant that his broad political statements and personal attacks are scientifically legitimate....I do feel justified in asking for the 'substantial scientific evidence' that would give a 'scientific' explanation for their validity.
Especially considering the topic Jen has put up for discussion here.
Let me remind you as a direct copy/paste:
Title:
HOW SCIENTIFIC IDEAS BECOME FASHIONABLE (PART 1)
and then among others, this particular paragraph:
'Science is meant to be about reality – it is meant to be about discovery and understanding and truth. Science is not meant to be about emotion or culture or even fashion. But how can you tell whether a conversation about a scientific issue is based on truth or fashion?'
May I humbly suggest an easy way to tell is when people take personal shots and pass ' self proclaimed superior judgement' on the motivation or even the 'care factor' of others?
Yeah, here's the EPA including methane in among the "dangerous ghg" climate forcings.
Climate change indicators.
That's embarrassing.
Out of vogue already when they wrote it. Heh.
The EPA might not want to prove the existence of every atom, but they are quite willing to compare
Titan to Mars, if they figure an angle to make the comparison jog with their politics.
Mars being so far away, it makes me wonder why they would look away from friendly neighborhood Hyperion.
Love that shot Bazza, 🙂
Are you on the payroll?
What payroll would that be Bazza?
And seriously....what does that have to do with the actual point of my comment?
Unlike you apparently, I have no time for tea parties or any other political agenda you would care to name.
I'm one of those people who run my own business as efficiently and responsibly as I can and I consequently judge any legislative/policy issue on its ability to deliver on its stated goals.
I am also highly fascintated by your selective quoting here:
And as for your convenient take on risk, they said ““Awaiting certainty will often allow for only reactive, not preventive, regulation.”
Would you care to explain what the preventative regulation would actually be?
What are we demonstrably'preventing' Bazza?
Maybe you would also care to explain what 'a convenient take on risk' is?
It's possible you may not understand, but people like me who run their own business and especially in the field of Agriculture, are highly aware of risk and are not inclined to look for 'convenience' or 'certainty' when managing it. Risk management actually has to work in practice.....otherwise it is simply a waste of our time and money.
I can assure you that it is rarely 'convenient'.
Can you guess what we have identified as our greatest ongoing and particularly inconvenient risk at the moment?